RE: 1978 Trotwood: Pictures added! Come see.
Know anyone who's owned a Trotwood?
..We grew up camping in a 22' Trotwood ('72 model I believe), that was not much bigger than what you have there. Inside pictures of your looks very similiar to what ours looked like, too. Brings back many memories, we travelled all over the country in that thing when I was a kid.
Some things I remember about it: They were fairly heavy, being all wooden frame construction. Also remember Dad having to tear out most of the back wall, to repair some water damage that rotted out some of the frame. But, it served us well for a good 20 years or so, until we all grew up and moved out.
Anyway, good luck with yours, it looks pretty good for its age. :)
RE: Rain, Can I get the TT out?
So, let's put a 2WD truck in a situation where even a 4x4 has problems (sandy beach), then gloat about how helpless the 2WD truck is? Yeah, that makes sense.
How about we drop your 4x4 in the middle of my pond? I'll ride circles around it on my PWC as it sinks to the bottom and tease you about how helpless it is in water. Makes just about as much sense.
LOL, OK. Just FYI, my 4x4 has NEVER had any problem on said sandy beaches. Been going there for years, never had a problem. The same cannot be said for most folks foolish enough to try using a 2wd on those beaches (I know 'cause I've watched them have to get towed out). Sooo, really, your statement here is the one that makes absolutely no sense. ;)
Now, THIS statement from Keith OTOH, I agree 100% with:
..it is more a testament of your yards drainage than of your 2wd non limited slip traction honestly..
Exactly. I can name several other conditions of mud/rain I've run into over the years, where I promise you that 2wd with open differential will go NOWHERE fast.
Will
RE: Rain, Can I get the TT out?
Sooo, you feeling lucky with your 2WD, huh, Terryallan?
Hows about this summer you join me camping out on the Outer Banks, and lets take the trucks out on those sandy beaches of the Outer Banks. After all, since your 2wd truck can pull a trailer out of 6" of rain and mud, those sandy beaches shouldnt be a problem, right? ;)
Don't worry, I always carry the tow straps with me. Never know when you'll run into someone on those beaches who thinks their 2WD truck is invinceable, and they wind up having to be pulled out. Locals out there on the Outer Banks make a good living pulling out folks like that, also. :B
Soooo, when you want to come to the Outer Banks, terryallan? ;)
RE: 4" Bumper Weight Limit
Ditto Joe's advice...Check with the manufacturer about what your bumper can handle weight wise. Most of them, I would not trust with anything more than a spare tire (thats all I have on ours).
For us, no matter HOW it was mounted, I didnt like the bikes being back there behind the TT, for several reasons:
1. Too much bouncing goes on back there.
2. You have very little view back there - if a bike broke loose, you would not know it in many cases until you got where you're going (unless you have one of the expensive rear view cameras).
3. Bikes are exposed to road dirt/grime, rain, elements, etc.
4. Bikes are out in the open, available to be stolen.
for those reasons, we chose to load up our bikes in the back of the Excursion. Works great, bikes stay locked up inside the truck much less likely to be stolen, they are OUT of the elements, and I don't have to worry about them breaking loose and killing someone behind me on the road. Does use up most of the space behind the 3rd row seat, but, like anything else, every choice has its pros and cons.
Anyway, if you must put them behind the TT, take Joe's advice, and call the manufacturer. Or, at the very least, have a long, close look at how the bumper is mounted, how stout it is, etc., and make a wise decision based on that. Personally, I'd recommend building a rack and putting them in the back of your pickup instead, but whatever floats your boat. :)
RE: Suburban 2500...TT to big?? opinions
Apparently GM does make one.......my accessorie guy emailed me.....
" After searching in the factory Chevy parts they do offer a 2.5" recvr (Class 5) It has a tongue weight of 1000#/1500# WD and a carrying capacity of 7500#/13000# WD, we will have to get a sleeve to size it doen to 2" "
Good news!!! WIth my Propride on what i have now i have to be right around 1000lbs
..Don't get too excited. Remember, Putnam thought they made one, too, then called you back and realized they did not for the new ones.
Are you sure your guy at GM is looking at the new GMT-900, and found a receiver appropriate for that, with class 5 rating? I hope he didnt just find one that was listed for pickups, or older model Suburbans...
If he indeed has found one for you, thats great! I'd then have to take back some of what I said in the last post, haha. :)
On another note: Regardless what you do with the receiver, EXCELLENT CHOICE there, on getting the ProPride 3P hitch. You will be very happy with it. :)
Will
RE: Suburban 2500...TT to big?? opinions
..Just now getting caught up with this thread.
I did not realize that the new Suburbans have only 1,000 lbs tongue weight rating. Nor did I realize that the new receiver is so integrated with the truck that its going to be very tough for anyone to offer/make an after-market receiver with better ratings. Geez, thats really pathetic, IMO.
Just another example of how automakers are making things more and more difficult for those of us that have a couple children, that want to tow large RV trailers. Ford's Excursion is no more, and GM watered down the 3/4 ton 'Burb so much, it really limites what you can tow.
Basically, there is NOTHING out there now (new) with 3 rows of seating, that can handle 10,000 lbs of trailer or more and more than 1,000 lbs of tongue weight. Pretty much, if thats your requirements, your only choice is to find a used 3/4 ton Burb, Excursion, or Van. That, or do like Clarkely is trying to do here, and re-inforce/customize the hitch on a new 3/4 ton Burb.
I would make only one suggestion to the OP here, since he's decided to go the route of trying to modify/re-enforce the OEM receiver regardless: There is a towing professional in Canada, that is well known (although in some ways a bit 'controversial') for doing modifications like you're talking about, and doing a very good job at it. You should check with Andy Thomson, at Can-Am RV (Andy is the owner).
The man does ruffle a lot of feathers, and creates a lot of controversy in the RVing community with the rigs he puts together. But, he knows his stuff really well, when it comes to towing, tow vehicle dynamics, modifications, etc. I would contact him, explain your situation, ask if he can help you with the OEM receiver. I'm betting he could help you, and offer some great ideas on how to re-enforce your receiver to handle the weight you want. He may well even be able to build you a new, custom receiver, that will suit your needs. He has done that for several vehicles.
On another note: Discussions like this, make me very glad I bought our Excursion when I did. Quite literally, there is NOTHING made like it anymore. I don't think I'll ever part with it.
RE: Do you leave your brake controller in the vehicle?
With the Jordan Ultima controller we used to use, I would disconnect the brake cable going to the pedal, when we would not be towing for a while. But, no, I never saw the need to remove the controller completely when we would not be towing. Not worth the trouble, IMO.
Only advantage I can think of to doing such, would be for less risk of theft, and possibly longer service life, since it'd not be on/operating so much if you removed it. The latter was why I would disconnect the Jordan, but it had a physical linkage/moving parts. A controller thats all electronic like a Prodigy (or Brakesmart like I have now), don't see any need to remove it for that reason.
And, as far as theft risk goes: Don't consider that much of a risk, either. Just don't see a brake controller as something a thief would ever waqnt. They want things they can grab quickly, and turn around quickly for cash (jewelry, DVD players, stereos, etc).
Somewhat off the subject, but I *do* carry a backup brake controller in the truck, so if by some crazy chance our main controller (Brakesmart) got stolen, I can grab the Jordan sitting in the back, hook it in and be back on the road, with functional trailer braking in 15 minutes.
RE: 2005 KEYSTONE LITE FRAME FAILURE
I am a little confused. Did you get a new camper or repair the old one. I am assuming you took the offer of a new one and reinforced it.
Keith, I was wondering the same thing, and also found it hard to believe they would offer trade-out to a new one that easily. It normally takes several threats of litigation, etc. before such would happen.
I'm thinking, their offer for a new one was something along the lines of, trade in your old one for a new one, and take the appropriate bath in red ink for your trailer being traded in as a used unit. Reason I say that is, it sounds like the OP did NOT take their offer, and instead repaired the A frame on the trailer he had. If the dealer had truly offered an even swap-out for a new trailer, I don't see how anyone could have turned that down.
Anyway, Gusto, sorry to hear of that mess. Failures like that do happen from time to time, but they really should not.
Have you talked to the dealer or to Keystone, about them re-imbursing you for the expense you incurred fixing the trailer RIGHT? They should, I would think.
I know if it was me, if something that significant in the trailer structure failed like that, I'd have a hard time ever trusting it again. Every bump in the road, I'd be cringing waiting for the frame to collapse. If you had it repaired correctly by a good welder, though, it probably will never be a problem again.
RE: Sold on Dodge Mega Cab...
..As already alluded to by Keith99RS in a previous post, don't expect a new 6.7L Cummins diesel to get anywhere near the mileage that older model Dodge Cummins diesels used to get. 18-20 mpg diesel pickups are a thing of the past with the emission controls that new diesels have. The new emission controls have really ate up some mileage, and kind of 'leveled the playing field' some, if you will.
That, and when you factor in that the diesel option now costs more than ever over a similiarly equipped gasser truck, AND that diesel fuel seems to permanently be a good .50 to 1.00 more a gallon than gas....The reasons/benefits of diesel are quickly fading away, strictly with regards to new trucks.
Do this: Ask a few Megacab diesel owners (NEW 6.7 diesel), what kind of REAL WORLD mileage they are getting. Likewise with hemi-powered pickups. I think you're going to find the mileage difference is nowhere near as much as you think, and you may well start to question whether its worth the higher purchase price, and higher price of diesel fuel.
I know with the Ford trucks, this is especially true. Ford's 3 valve V10 puts out VERY good power, very close to same towing power as the diesel. It does so only getting only a couple less mpg than a new 6.4 power stroke diesel, yet costs almost 10,000 less $$ up front. If I was buying a new Ford pickup, there's no question which way I'd go (and it would NOT be a diesel).
Anyway, good luck with whatever you go with. Do some research on what kind of mileage you can realistically expect a 6.7 diesel to get, and factor that into your decision. Thats my only point.
Will
RE: Question for RV'ers
When we used to tent camp, then later camped with a popup, I noticed the same thing you mentioned here, and thought the same thing you did - why bother to come out camping, if you're going to stay inside all day. Still wonder that, to a certain extent.
Then, one day we decided to move up to a hybrid trailer (trailer with canvas bunk ends like your popup). Then, a few years later, we moved up to a 34' Trailer we have now (see signature).
See, when you camp in a tent or a popup, you tend to spend more time outside, since your indoor facilities are not quite as luxurious. Soo, naturally since you spend more time outdoors, it makes you wonder why everyone else doesn't as well.
All I can say is, one day when/if you move up to a larger camper, it will change your perception some, and you will start to understand why, a little better. :)
We are like you in that we camp to be outside and do outdoor activities. Thats always been our main reason for camping, and I hope that NEVER changes no matter what we camp with. Its also the reason that there are certain things from home we don't bring with us in the TT - no TV, no DVD players or video games, none of that stuff. We camp to get away from that stuff, for the most part.
At the same time, though, part of the reason we moved up to a TT was so that when times came that we wanted to be inside for whatever reason, we could (comfortably). With the rig we have, we can do either - we have plenty of room inside for those times when the weather doesn't cooperate, or we just want to be inside for whatever reason....Or, we can enjoy the outdoors and do outdoor stuff. We wanted to have that choice.
And, there are times, when we may spend more time inside than you typically do. Most notably, when its 98 deg. outside and real humid, or freezing cold and/or pouring rain. Generally speaking, though, when the weather is nice outside, you will find us doing something outdoors - either sitting outside the camper having a drink watching the kids play, riding bikes, walking, hiking, cooking/eating outside, or having a campfire in the evenings. And, especially the latter activity, you'd be welcome to join us for. :)
Soooo, bottom line: Its all in one's perception, I think. When you're outside more, you see/perceive that people around you seem to spend more time indoors than you do, so you wonder about this. When you move up to a rig that is nicer inside, you tend to spend a little more time inside than you did before, for whatever reason. Some do so (spend their time inside) more so than others. But, like you said, to each their own, its all good. Regardless whether you're inside or out, even the worst day camping (or RVing), is better than your best day at the office/work. :B
One other note: Please don't be discouraged, by the folks that took your post/question as an opportunity to make insulting and ugly comments back to you. There are those that find ways to be ugly no matter WHAT question/issue is brought up. Just gotta filter those out and ignore them, thats what I do. Sometimes you gotta have thick skin 'round here, haha.
RE: OBX camping and Ocean Waves
We go there occasionally, like to stay at Camp Hatteras. Was there last summer, always like going there and taking the truck (4x4) out on the beaches there. :)
..As remote as Outer Banks is, I would bet fuel prices are hurting their business worse than a lot of other places. We try to go to Outer Banks every year or so, but due to the distance and how obscenely expensive gas is (not to mention CGs out there are not cheap to begin with), this year we chose to go to more close by state parks instead.
We are planning to get back out to Outer Banks next summer. That is, assuming we can still take the truck out on the beaches, and they haven't closed off access completely. Perhaps the latest round of 4x4 beach access limitations, may be hurting their business there as well.
RE: Did my good deed for a fellow TT owner
Had that happen to us once. We were 'dropping' a sewer hose like that also on the way back from Outer Banks. Motorist pulled alongside and informed us of such. Fortunately, I got pulled over in time before the hose contacted the road any.
That was 5 years ago, and was the last time I ever stored our sewer hose in the bumper. Now, it stays in a storage chute I built out of PVC pipe.
Anyway, yep, it always feels good to help fellow campers. Earlier this year we were camping at Myrtle Beach, I saw a lady struggling to roll up her awning, 'cause a storm was coming. It kept jamming, she looked over at me with that 'help' look, right as I was getting up to offer to help her. Got it rolled up, and was glad to help out a fellow camper. :)
RE: LT truck tire on TT?
I think Quark's quote straight from a trailer manufacturer, answers this question perfectly:
...For this reason it is not recommended that (P) Passenger or (LT) Light Truck tires be used on trailers. Best trailer control will be achieved with (ST) Special Trailer tires....
Better off to stick with tires that are designed for the purpose you are going to use them for. 'Nuff said.
RE: My First Blowout, now tireshopping.
Ouch, sorry to hear 'bout that. I always cringe when seeing pictures of the damage trailer tire blowouts can do. Have a good friend that is right now repairing some plumbing damage done to his trailer due to a blowout. NOT fun.
Anyway, I think one word in your original post sums up a lot of the problem: Carlisle. Have heard, and know personally of many, MANY incidents of Carlisles blowing up for no reason. So much so, that (Carlisle) is one brand I (and many others I know) simply will not buy.
You're right, that most likely the way a tire is maintained and how its used has more to do with the chances of it failing or not, more so than the brand. At the same time, though, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest several brands of trailer tires (mostly ones made in China) have an obscenely high failure rate. Enough to make one seriously wonder about those brands.
One other note: I would not buy into the notion, that *all* ST (trailer) tires are bad, and one should spend obscene $$ to replace the wheels with 16" ones, just so you can use LT tires. Use a product for the purpose its built for, I always say. LT tires were not meant for the kind of abuse TT tires go through, ST tires were. I really think that many that spend all the $$ to step up to LT tires and try to justify it, only do so 'cause they want to be able to go 70 mph or faster and not have to worry about the tires (ST tires are only rated to 65). For me personally, I prefer to just keep our rig to 65 mph max regardless. You get better mileage that way (but thats a whole 'nother debate). ;)
Anyway, you mentioned Titan. They have an excellent reputation, as does Maxxis. Greenball and Denman are two others that have a good reputation overall. I would look for a set of ST tires in one of those brands, preferably Maxxis or Titan. Hehe, any trailer tire that does not say 'made in china' on the side of it.
I think the original size/rating you had was fine for your trailer - 225/75R15 load range D. Only way I'd go up to an E, is if you can verify that your wheels can handle the extra PSI (80 psi), or if you don't mind buying new wheels that can handle that much pressure.
Thats my suggestion/story, and I'm sticking to it. :)
RE: Gross combined vehicular weight of Ford 3500 Vans
For a 7500 lb. boat, look for a E350 setup with the V10. Either ratio would be adequate for you, but the 4.10 axle ratio would be even better (18,500 GCWR).
BTW - I'm pretty sure most reoadtreks are extended vans, which means the GVWR on those vans would be between 9100-9500 pounds depending on the motor and spring package.
Brian, I thought the V10 with the 4.10 gearing, gave you 20,000 lbs GCWR? At least, I know it does in the Excursions, does it not with the E350 vans as well? I know the receiver in both cases keeps you from using all the GCWR, but thought that the V10 in both vans and Excursion gave you 20,000 GCWR..
Will
RE: break away cable
Will, I hope you opted to have the breakaway switch activate as soon as there is separation of the primary coupling between TV and TT. If so, you will be following the directives given in the links contained in this post.
Ron
Sorry, even after reading that, I'm still not convinced one approach is any better than the other. With either approach, there is a good chance very bad things are going to happen, no matter what you do. I'm not certain length of breakaway cable will make that much difference. I can think of very bad things that can result from EITHER approach. Bottom line is, you're probably gonna be in deep doo-doo regardless.
Consider this very real possibility, Ron: I'm willing to bet most TT brakes are not 100% equal, in the way they'll distrubute braking to each wheel, when engaged fully by that breakaway cable. That being the case, consider the very real possibility that the wheels on one side may brake harder than the other. Now you have the trailer trying to TURN, while you are dragging it with chains. NOT good.
Personally, I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference, whether the breakaway engage before or after complete separataion. I think regardless what the TT brakes do, you are in BIG trouble once a hitch fails and you are dragging a trailer with nothing but chains.
Best approach: Take any and all precautions possible, to ensure you never get into this situation in the first place, haha!! :)
Will
RE: Brake Controllers?
I understand what youre saying, but what Im really wondering now that it appears the IBC is a constant "added power" what its doing for you that simply turning the gain up wouldnt?
It appears to me that the IBC and the "T" setting are simply raising or lowering the starting point for the controller to begin its power application rate (determined by the gain setting).
Well, I don't agree that IBC is a 'constant' added power, added along entire braking 'curve' as is being suggested here. That is not the experience I have of it, and roln's test noted above with 99% IBC turned on casts even further doubt on that idea.
My exerience with the Brakesmart's IBC setting, is more that it is an 'initial' power that is applied, as soon as you touch the brake. That 'initial' setting is what is continually applied to the brakes, until you press the pedal hard enough that braking PSI goes beyond that IBC setting. Then, the braking 'curve' or whatever goes as it normally would, based on gain and power factor settings.
That being the case, I'm just not seeing how you could duplicate that with the MaxBrake (and I can back that up with actual experience with both controllers, something nobody else in this discussion can say ;) ).
As to your question about the 'T' setting: I honestly don't remember what it was set on when I was testing the Maxbrake. Sorry.
From what I could tell of that 'T' setting, though, it was the point in the brake pressure's 'curve', at which braking power is first turned on. That is NOT the same thing as an initial brake setting, that lets you specify how much braking to apply, the instant TV brakes are first applied. I'm not sure I see how adjusting the T setting (the point at which braking first turns on) would give the same effect as Brakesmart's IBC. It might could come close, yes, but still not the same.
did you adjust the "T" beyond the initial calibration?
Unfortunately, no, I did not adjust the T setting any, after the initial calibration. Perhaps in hindsight if I would have, I might would have eventually been able to get slightly better results with the Maxbrake. I don't believe so, though, and it was MUCH easier and quicker to get the desired result with the Brakesmart and its IBC setting. I don't believe T setting adjustment would let you turn on a 'constant' amount of braking right off the bat, anyway. That is, not without turning up the gain so much that you'd have too much gain as you got further down the braking 'curve' as I said before.
Anyway, this is a great discussion. It kind of has me tempted to re-connect the MaxBrake, and try it out one more time, tweaking the T setting a little bit. Naaaah. Too much of a PITA to crawl under the dashboard, and disconnect/reconnet all those wires again. Not to mention the fun of pulling out the Brakesmart's pressure sensor wire from the firewall, and running Maxbrake's wire through again. Still not convinced I'd have much different results, anyway.
Now, to shift gears slightly, and try and answer Ron's last question:
So, now I'm wondering -- why does MaxBrake bother to include a fourth wire and have you connect it to the brake light switch? Seems to me that it must have some purpose.
Maybe Will can tell us.
I figured it 'wakes up' the controller to begin applying brakes based on pressure and gain setting, kind of like the Brakesmart works. Chadsalt's test seems to suggest there's more to it than that, though.
Perhaps *either* the brake light switch *or* brake pressure sensor will 'wake it up', and in the test Chad did, the brake pressure sensor is what woke it up, since the other alarm clock (brake light, haha) was disabled..
RE: Brake Controllers?
Hypothetical; if the IBC is set to provide 1 amp, and the gain provides 3 amps at 400 psi.......why cant the gain just be set to 4 amps at 400 psi?
Of course now Im COMPLETLY baffeled as to why willard could not achieve his desired braking control with the Maxbrake.
Hehe, to skip through a lot of the technical discussion, and get right to answer chadsalt's question here with specific real world experience (not theory and speculation, haha):
Indeed, with the Maxbrake, I was able to turn up the gain, to get the desired initial braking. And, that worked fine as long as I just lightly touched the brake pedal, and never really pressed it (as in, only wanted to make slow, gentle stops).
Problem was, with the gain set that way, when I pressed the pedal a little harder, trailer brakes came on waaay too heavily. In more than one case actually locked up the trailer wheels.
With the Maxbrake, when I turned up the gain enough to get sufficient initial braking, there was TOO MUCH braking when I had to stop/slow down from higher speeds (as in, when I had to press the brake pedal a good bit). When I turned the gain back down to correct that, then, there was NOT enough initial braking. Never could achieve a good 'middle ground' between those extremes. Same basic problem that many people have with non-proportional controllers. With the Brakesmart and its IBC setting, though, I was able to adjust things perfectly.
Which is, like I said, why I think the KISS principle used by Maxbrake hurt them somewhat.
RE: Why I can't use stabilizer jacks to level TT???
The jacks may support 2K but the frame won't.
I think this statement sums up, and answers the OP's question perfectly. Thats pretty much all there is to it.
RE: break away cable
Ahhh, the debate of "should breakaway cable engage trailer brakes before or after total separation of trailer from tow vehicle". Seen that one debated for many, many pages. And, its one of those cases where I still don't know which is better, there is very good arguments to support either side of that debate. The pros/cons go something like this:
If breakaway engages *before*, when chains are still holding trailer in place:
Would cause sudden 'jerk' backward of trailer brakes engaging. Could cause chains to let go when otherwise would not have, due to shock load. Could also cause loss of control.
But, OTOH, doing it this way means bringing the trailer to a safe stop *might* be easier, since the trailer brakes being engaged could help keep the trailer straight behind you, and it wont be coming forward into your tow vehicle.
If breakaway engages only when hitch and chains fail completely:
No sudden 'jerk' backward quite as bad, so chains have better chance of holding onto the trailer, and preventing the worst case scenario.
OTOH, this means that maintaining control could be difficult, with trailer swinging back and forth held only by chains. Could also mean more potential damage to your tow vehicle when stopping, if trailer rolls foward into it.
....I really don't know which is better (and don't recall just which way mine is set up, haha). I just hope nobody has to ever find out from first-hand experience which is better, haha.
Anwyway, back to the *original* question: Most definiltey, you don't want to connect the breakaway cable to the chains. Nor do you want to run it through the chains, either - too easy for it to bind up in there.
Best to connect the break-away to something other than receiver if possible. I connect ours to the bumper, there is a loophole under it on Ford superduties which is perfect for this. Still, connecting to the receiver is not necessarily bad, and MUCh better than the way the original poster said theirs was hooked up to the chain. As roln pointed out, with Pullrite hitch you have no choice but to hook it to the receiver.
another trick I learned recently: To take up the 'slack' of the breakaway cable, and keep from having to run it through or around the chains: Thread the cable through the loop/link in your ball lock, if you have one. This keeps the cable from dangling, and keeps it from tangling up with the chains as much.
